I have a really stupid automotive dilemma

"Logansteno: Bought a VW?" (logansteno) 02/23/2016 at 10:39 • Filed to: None

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I want a car with 3 pedals. It’s been something that’s been shoved in the back of my head since I bought the M3 and it was round-house kicked straight to the front of my mind with the introduction of my friend’s $600 ‘Stang.

Now, there’s a dealership local to me that has a 2006 Mazda6 V6 Grand Sport with a 5-speed. It’s at the same dealer my ex bought her Taurus from and that was/is a good car outside of the typical issues Fords of that era have, so I trust the place isn’t a sleazy lot with shit cars. If I sold the M3 I could pay all cash for the car. This is where my dilemma lies.

I have so much emotional/financial investment in the M3 I don’t know if I could bring myself to sell it. I’ve tried in the past and couldn’t bring myself to hand over the keys to anyone. I just love the car so damn much despite its flaws and faults. But, I know it’s an almost 180,000 mile, 18 year old BMW and stuff is going to start breaking at an even faster rate. The gas mileage isn’t great and I can ever only use 3 seats at a time because it’s so tiny inside.

Now here’s the question. Do I sell the M and buy the Mazda and have myself a manual, still fun to drive sedan, or do I keep the M3 through college and then buy a newer, manual car when I graduate and keep the M as a toy?

Here’s the ad for the Mazda, if the car changes anything:

http://mjscarsales.com/InventoryDetai…

Supreme Chancellor and Glorious Leader SaveTheIntegras > Logansteno: Bought a VW? 02/23/2016 at 10:45

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mmmm that purple

Get the mazda, make the smarter choice

LOREM IPSUM > Logansteno: Bought a VW? 02/23/2016 at 10:45

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Automatic rwd M3 > manual fwd econobox...

...but you’re right. The m3 is going to put you in the poor house.

Mazda’s are pretty reliable though, and manual transmissions are a blast.

In summation, the answer is always Miata.

Twism > Logansteno: Bought a VW? 02/23/2016 at 10:46

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How hard is it to swap a manual in that M3?

dogisbadob > Logansteno: Bought a VW? 02/23/2016 at 10:46

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Yeah, you can sell it and buy a manual, just not that one. The Mazda 6 V6 is terrible; get the 4 instead. Better if you can find a MS6, which is a turbo-4 :)

The only time you should even consider getting a V6 6 is the wagon, which was V6-only over here.

64Mali > Logansteno: Bought a VW? 02/23/2016 at 10:46

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Don’t Do It. As a lover of Mazdas I can tell you that engine is going to be nothing but trouble at that mileage. If you want to budget a new engine, and cats in a short while then sure get it, they drive great. But that price is way to high for that car/mileage.

I have owned 2 of those cars.

Slant6 > Logansteno: Bought a VW? 02/23/2016 at 10:48

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The E36 M3 is not rare. It will never be. You know this already. You will have no problem getting back into one in the future.

You had a good run with it and like all good movies it has to end. The Mazda will be a choice you won’t regret.

Nibbles > Logansteno: Bought a VW? 02/23/2016 at 10:48

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That 6 has the correct color, correct engine and correct transmission. I don’t know about you, but I’d take the 6 over a ticking-timebomb any day

Chariotoflove > Logansteno: Bought a VW? 02/23/2016 at 10:48

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Well only you can set your priorities, but I would stay with the working, paid off car I have now and finish school. Then I could keep the M3 as you say and avoid the regrets. Plus, when you do get your manual, you will have more choices.

Chris_K_F drives an FR-Slow > Logansteno: Bought a VW? 02/23/2016 at 10:49

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What about getting rid of the current M3 for one with 3 pedals?

Party-vi > LOREM IPSUM 02/23/2016 at 10:50

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“Mazda’s are pretty reliable though”

The Dummy Gummy > Logansteno: Bought a VW? 02/23/2016 at 10:50

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Seems a little high in price for that kind of mileage (Mazda), but I will ignore the other car completely and address your initial problem. I had this problem as well. It’s going to sound really stupid, but I really liked my stupid Honda Civic sedan. I don’t know why I had such a bond with the stupid car, but I did. I think I was more torn up because when I sold it I was young and stupid and felt scammed from the stealership.

Given your miles though I think it is time to part ways before things get really costly. It’s going to be painful, but to ease the pain be sure you’re buying the right replacement for the car. Not something that you’re settling for, but a car you know you’ll love. I really regret the day I sold my amigo, but that is mostly because of the interaction with the dealership and the fact I wasn’t super thrilled with my new car. I have my Subaru now, which I really really love (not the car I bought after the Civic) and this car will stay with me for at least another half a decade if I have any say in it.

Best of luck!

505 - morphine not found > Logansteno: Bought a VW? 02/23/2016 at 10:53

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I love Mazdas, and the generation of 6 you are looking at is no exception, but they aren’t even in the same league as an M3, whatever the generation. FWD for starters, being a family sedan as opposed to a sports coupe comes second, and it’ll just never be as much fun.

Also, your M3 might start appreciating in the future, maybe not even that far away a future, while a Mazda6 will be just that, whatever the vintage.

And also, two of my friends were looking at Mazdas from this generation, and most of them were rusting. No kidding, I myself inspected a 2007 Mazda 6 for one of them, seemed in excellent condition, pristine interior, great looking mechanical bits, but once you looked under it, holy shit, brown stuff everywhere. Now this was in Europe, if you are, say, in Cali, then this is a non-issue, but still, good to know.

However, and with all this said: keeping an M3 going on a shoestring... is a challenge. If you need a car for DD duty, that Mazda 6 is definitely a better bet, so if needs must, then go ahead and do the trade. But you might regret it, especially if you end up with too much student- and house loans on your credit and can’t get back fast enough in another, better and more manual M3....

In summary, this is a classical dilemma: you have two choices, but you’ll regret it either way. Chin up, and good luck!

Party-vi > Twism 02/23/2016 at 10:54

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Not very if you have $3,000 - $4,000 to spend having a shop do it.

Logansteno: Bought a VW? > Twism 02/23/2016 at 10:56

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It’s not the difficulty, it’s more the price. Manual swaps are things I have no money for.

miadaman? yes please > Logansteno: Bought a VW? 02/23/2016 at 10:57

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I don’t have any experience with the Mazda6 V6, but I feel if driving is fun for you then transmission choice is more important than drivetrain/brand choice.

The whole FWD/RWD debate has always been funny to me, considering many people will rarely drive their DD in a manner in which whichever wheel is powered matters. I would focus on steering, pedal feel more as they will be much more relevant on your drive.

With that said I am team manuel, gl.

Logansteno: Bought a VW? > 505 - morphine not found 02/23/2016 at 10:59

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Honestly, I don’t drive enough fun roads to even begin to explore the M’s potential. A sporty front driver would be more than enough fun for me, especially with the manual.

On the rust front, I have access to lifts to get up under the car and look around for anything rusting badly.

Logansteno: Bought a VW? > 64Mali 02/23/2016 at 10:59

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Will it be any worse than a 180,000 mile S52 with a questionable past though?

Slant6 > Logansteno: Bought a VW? 02/23/2016 at 11:00

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Why not beater? Get your own $600 mustang and put the M3 aside for future restoration.

Logansteno: Bought a VW? > miadaman? yes please 02/23/2016 at 11:01

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I’m not particularly bothered with it being FWD. Hell, my mom’s Fusion is plenty fun and it’s FWD. I am certainly more concerned with the stick poking out of the center console.

Logansteno: Bought a VW? > Slant6 02/23/2016 at 11:01

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I don’t have money or storage room for two cars.

Logansteno: Bought a VW? > Chris_K_F drives an FR-Slow 02/23/2016 at 11:02

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3 pedal ones go for way way way more than my automatic one is worth.

Logansteno: Bought a VW? > dogisbadob 02/23/2016 at 11:02

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Isn’t the Mazda V6 just a Ford Duratec?

Logansteno: Bought a VW? > Nibbles 02/23/2016 at 11:04

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The color is what really drew me to it. Hrrrnnng Cherry red.

LOREM IPSUM > Party-vi 02/23/2016 at 11:05

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Lmfao. Comparatively speaking, of course.

(There’s always the s2k, too, albeit obviously not a Mazda.)

Nibbles > Logansteno: Bought a VW? 02/23/2016 at 11:07

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It’s the second best color

miadaman? yes please > Logansteno: Bought a VW? 02/23/2016 at 11:07

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I might have sidetracked after reading some comments. I think if you enjoy a stick then you should go for it. But M3 do have better steering/pedal and is better balanced, so you will be losing some of that. As a fellow commentator has said, if the M3 of that year is not such a rare beast, you can always get back in one later- with a stick this time.

My bird IS the word > Logansteno: Bought a VW? 02/23/2016 at 11:09

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I love manuals. I will never buy a dd that doesn’t have a stick.

But autos on powerful cars really aren’t that bad. Don’t do anything that will screw yourself financially. A bmw with an auto is a lot better than no car at all. I know it's the fashion to buy high mileage cars here on oppo but it's like playing Russian roulette. Eventually you will get screwed. At least the m3 is a known quantity.

dogisbadob > Logansteno: Bought a VW? 02/23/2016 at 11:09

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Yeah, but with some slight modifications. I just heard about problems with the V6 6.

Wacko > Logansteno: Bought a VW? 02/23/2016 at 11:09

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you don’t live in the rust belt so a 2006 mazda if safe.

That mazda should also be cheaper to run, fix insure....

Logansteno: Bought a VW? > Wacko 02/23/2016 at 11:11

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Yeah, I’ve never actually seen a rusty Mazda here save a couple proteges, that’s the only reason I’d even consider one because the M is rusty and it gives me nightmares.

jariten1781 > Logansteno: Bought a VW? 02/23/2016 at 11:12

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Are you going to be relying on the vehicle for...um...anything? If so, the 6 is a better option.

That said, the 6 is not nearly as engaging. I had that gen (04, 5MT, wagon) for ten years and it’s at the top of mid-size mid-market sedans for engagement, but that still won’t compare to a purpose built model. It's a great daily though, mine was pretty much bullet proof.

Logansteno: Bought a VW? > jariten1781 02/23/2016 at 11:14

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I don’t even really drive the roads the M3 is built for at all. So a midsizer with at least a little sport peppered in would still give me the fuzzies.

64Mali > Logansteno: Bought a VW? 02/23/2016 at 11:16

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If you pay 4k or less for the car you might be ok. But the engines are known to eat oil and leak out of various places. Its a problem with using the modular ford 3.0 duratec block. Most of the V6s I see need a new engine around this mileage because of miss fires or massive oil leaks. I personally killed one. Cats also got clogged in the process.

MrFurzzy > dogisbadob 02/23/2016 at 11:23

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What’s wrong with the V6? I have a 2005 with 185,000 miles and it has been very reliable. They can die if the cats go bad, but that can be avoided if you check your oil regularly and take care of any misfiring engine codes.

Twism > Logansteno: Bought a VW? 02/23/2016 at 11:24

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And couldn’t you find an M3 with a manual and somebody willing to trade ?

Because I don’t know for you but I’d rather have a manual M3 than a manual Mazda6... Not that the 6 is a bad car, but going from a German sport sedan to a japanese midsize sedan is an awful downgrade in terms of ride quality and handling...

Logansteno: Bought a VW? > Twism 02/23/2016 at 11:27

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I have to say I’m willing to forgo some handling prowess for a larger, more reliable, more comfortable, better riding car.

mazda616 > Logansteno: Bought a VW? 02/23/2016 at 11:27

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The 6 is a great car. But, the 3.0 does have its fair share of issues with clogging catalytic converters.

http://forum.mazda6club.com/3-0l-v6/245654…

There's a guy in my local Mazda owners club that has had to replace his engine twice. The 2.3 is a far better motor. I have another friend with a 2004 Mazda6 with the 2.3 and 5-speed and it just passed 350,000 miles on the original engine and transmission.

Logansteno: Bought a VW? > mazda616 02/23/2016 at 11:28

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Rather clogging cats than replacing timing and VVT components on my car.

MUSASHI66 > Logansteno: Bought a VW? 02/23/2016 at 11:34

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Why would you go for a Mazda 6 from an M3? Mazda 6 might be the most exciting of the mid size sedans, but it is like saying this vanilla ice cream is the most vanilla ice cream of them all. If you are going for a FWD car, why not something like FoST or MS3?

I just think you’ll be bored out of your mind with a car like that after driving an M3.

mazda616 > Party-vi 02/23/2016 at 11:34

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The only Mazda models with the less than above average reliability are the Millenia, the 626, and the CX-7. The CX-7 had the turbo motor from the Speed3 and the soccer mom driving duties aren't suited to that motor. The Millenia had that weird tiny Miller Cycle motor and I don't know what the issue with the 626 was.

Ford 999 > Logansteno: Bought a VW? 02/23/2016 at 11:34

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Owned a 2003 Mazda6s with an automatic for 5 years before it got totaled at 123K by a valet at an off-airport parking facility. Loved that car - really comfortable, fun to drive for a FWD family sedan, wish I’d gotten a stick one. Not great mileage (23-24 on average with 2/3 highway/ 1/3 city driving). In the 5 years/100K miles I had it, the only non-regular maintenance I did was valve cover gaskets/oil pan gasket at 92k. Other than that, the thing ran great. It spent its whole life in Kansas City, which is not Wisconsin or Michigan when it comes to snow/salt but it’s not Arizona either. The thing didn’t have a spec of rust on it when it was totaled, but I also regularly washed it and waxed it 2-3x per year.

If you’re looking at that 6, might be worth getting an oil change analysis from Blackstone and maybe a compression test from an independent shop just to be as assured as possible of the motor’s health. Looks like a fun car though!

mazda616 > Logansteno: Bought a VW? 02/23/2016 at 11:34

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If you keep an eye on things, it might be fine. I’m just wary of that motor and I love Mazdas (obviously).

Logansteno: Bought a VW? > MUSASHI66 02/23/2016 at 11:40

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Because more reliable, newer, less miles, more room inside, more comfortable, and still a decently fun car. I can in no way afford a Focus ST or MS3. This would be a direct trade between the M and 6, no loan or anything.

Logansteno: Bought a VW? > mazda616 02/23/2016 at 11:43

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Maybe running an 180k mile S52 to the tune of 14k miles a year has made me less weary of things that have a billion different possible ways of going. I dunno. I can’t see myself buying anything this size from this era without a V6 though.

mazda616 > Logansteno: Bought a VW? 02/23/2016 at 11:46

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If you ever get a chance, drive a 2.3 Mazda6 with the 5-speed. My friend’s is super quick for what it is. The transmission makes all the difference.

mazda616 > Logansteno: Bought a VW? 02/23/2016 at 11:47

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I feel like the the FoST and FiST are the #1 go-to car reference on Oppo (even surpassing the Miata). Need a minivan for your 4 kids? Nah, stuff them in an ST. Need a 4WD for mountain driving? Nah, put snow tires on an ST. Need a new hearse for the funeral home? ST!

Brian Silvestro > Logansteno: Bought a VW? 02/23/2016 at 11:48

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why don’t you just sell your M3, and get another M3

Slant6 > Logansteno: Bought a VW? 02/23/2016 at 11:48

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Take it apart and put it in boxes.

Logansteno: Bought a VW? > Brian Silvestro 02/23/2016 at 11:49

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Manual M3s are way more valuable than auto ones, that’s why. Plus if I did sell it I’d want something newer and roomier inside.

Brian Silvestro > Logansteno: Bought a VW? 02/23/2016 at 11:50

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I’d rather have an auto e36 m3 than a manual mazda 6 wtf

Logansteno: Bought a VW? > Brian Silvestro 02/23/2016 at 11:51

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Then it’s a damn good thing it isn’t your decision isn’t it?

Brian Silvestro > Logansteno: Bought a VW? 02/23/2016 at 11:52

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yeah I know right that would be the worst

MUSASHI66 > Logansteno: Bought a VW? 02/23/2016 at 11:53

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Got you. May I ask - if you are after newer car with less miles, why Mazda 6 with 130k on the clock? Within 50 miles of 63301 where the Mazda is located, these are 25 cars to chose from under 60k miles which are priced $6-7K, like a 2005 Gran Marquis with 57k miles for $6000 asking price - which seems to be a wet dream for half the oppos? There is a Saab, a Sentra, a Versa, Civic, Focus, F150... all with way lower mileage. Is Mazda 6 something you really like?

I almost bought a MS6 in 2008, I do like the looks too.

http://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale/…

Logansteno: Bought a VW? > MUSASHI66 02/23/2016 at 11:59

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The Panther platform disgusts me, I don’t want a truck nor a compact because my car now basically is and get more than two people in there and it gets cramped. Saab reliability scares me more than BMWs does.

The 6 is new enough and has low enough miles that I don’t feel I have to sweat something going astronomically wrong, is the right size, price, and has the right amount of cylinders and pedals.

jariten1781 > Logansteno: Bought a VW? 02/23/2016 at 12:06

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Yeah, I’ve lived with an unreliable expensive to repair thing for a DD before...it sucks. They’re fun for toys but when they bust and you can’t get to work to make the money you need to buy the unobtanium part it’s a bummer.

If you do end up picking it up I've got some 20" Sparco Asseto Gara wheels with RE50A tires with 50-80% tread left (haven't looked at them in a while) I could get to you for shipping only. They're just taking up space in the garage and I'm too lazy/annoyed to do the craigslist.

Jonathan Harper > Logansteno: Bought a VW? 02/23/2016 at 12:09

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I can ever only use 3 seats at a time because it’s so tiny inside.

It’s small, ya, but what?

Logansteno: Bought a VW? > Jonathan Harper 02/23/2016 at 12:14

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The the driver’s seat all the way back (how 6'4" me has to sit) there's literally an inch between the seatback and base cushion behind me.

MUSASHI66 > Logansteno: Bought a VW? 02/23/2016 at 12:36

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Well then, you seem to have all your answers lined up. Now it just a game of “do I trade my M3 now when it is still worth something” or “do I drive the M3 hoping nothing major will break”. Good luck either way.

If only EssExTee could be so grossly incandescent > Logansteno: Bought a VW? 02/23/2016 at 12:39

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I’ve heard of bad rust issues with those 6s and those particular wheels I think have a reputation for having the structural integrity of a pipe cleaner.

Maybe not that particular car, but if you want to get a manual then go for it.

V6 or Bust > Logansteno: Bought a VW? 02/23/2016 at 16:07

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Don’t do it! I have a 2005 Mazda6 V6, and you don’t want the pile of bolts that is the Ford Duratec motor that was unceremoniously shoved in these things. It’s overweight and extremely unreliable. These motors are known for VVT issues, nasty misfires, and catalytic converter issues. The last two require complete engine replacement. All of these things start at about 150,000 miles. I know an M3 isn’t reliable, either, but if you want a reliable car, get a reliable car.

MUSASHI66 > mazda616 02/23/2016 at 17:39

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Well, he is looking for a fun FWD car with a manual that can fit people easier than a M3. FoST fits big time - other than his budget which became apparent after my original post.

Shoop > Logansteno: Bought a VW? 02/24/2016 at 08:55

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Swap? loldunno

BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires > Logansteno: Bought a VW? 02/24/2016 at 09:51

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I found that with my E36 325i. Sod all space in the rear, although I’ve never really been concerned about that sort of thing. It’s my car, I’m going to be sitting up front. Rear seat space is someone else’s problem.

Actually, how about another manual E36? Can you pick them up cheap enough that you don’t have to sell the M3? You’ll already be familiar with working on it. you’ll already be familiar with the driving dynamics and after college you can have a crack at swapping the M3 bits over to the manual car and have the best of both worlds :)

finn's arm > Logansteno: Bought a VW? 02/24/2016 at 14:04

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How much could you sell your M3 for these days? $4-5K?

You got it for a steal so you’re ahead. If I were in your shoes, I would go for a newer, more reliable car during youth and come back to enthusiast cars when more financially ready for that commitment.